New Member...2 New Dragons!

[jamesobrady]

Hey all...recently found the site and am glad I did..the info and discussions here are really helpful!

Firstly....My name is James, Im 26 and i live in Ireland.
I have 2 Chinese Wd's ...Dismus is a juvie about 2-3 months old (svl about 8cm) and the new guy(to me) is as of yet unnamed and about 8-12 months old(svl about 14cm). The ages are guesses...if anyone has an opinion please share it!

Dizzy is in a modified aquarium with a 40watt spotlight for heat/basking and the big guy(to me..lol) is in a proper vivarium about 1.5 meters long with a 60 wat spotlight......both have reptisun 5.0 for uv. Actually its the only brand we get locally so no choice!

General temps seem good...averaging 80 in the colder spots and up to the nineties in the warmer spots. I mist everything a couple of times daily with warm water as suggested. Not sure what the humidity is but the gauge reads 70-80 and theres plenty of condensation on the glass.

They both seem happy in their own enclosures and have become quite used to being handled once or twice daily. I live away from home most of the week and my brother looks after them for me...mostly.....I only got the new guy last week and wasnt able to properly sort his enclosure out with plants and substrate so i left instructions and money....and came home to find wood chips and bits of pine branches and one very unhealthy non-eating Dragon. Anyway....3 days of fixing the environment and minding and he's back eating and looking perky.

Dizzy was eating lots of small crickets for the last 3 weeks since i got him but not growing at all....i tried him on slightly bigger crickets and he loves them....hard to explain but he kinda shakes them around like a dog would with a guys arm! He's put on weight at last and shed once so far...even his spikes are starting to develop a little!

After reading the advice given in another thread i tried slowly introduce them to each other but Dizzy totally freaked out and hid from the other one...i cant tell either of their sex yet but i think the larger one is male...(slightly angular tail and pronounced neck spikes right?)

...and then as i removed Dizzy the big guy rushed over to him ...looked like a threatening gesture to me but not sure...he tends to rush onto my hand when i put it in anyway! Dizzy was very unhappy though...lying flat on my hand and just scared looking!

What do you guys reckon?

They're both usually very docile and will sit on my shoulder for about 10 minutes if im on the computer or on a potted plant nearby without rushing too far away.
Though when they do get going they find the best spots to hide in! Dizzys favourite one seems to be behind the radiator on the wall.

Also....for substrate im using reptivite sand.....i dont like the idea of "reptile friendly" wood chips as i have seen the new guy eat at least one chip along with a cricket and the idea of it impacting makes me rather avoid risking it. He passed it alright this time anyway!
Thats pretty much my only choice as far as substrates go but if anyone has heard anything negative about that sand please tell me!

The local shop doing reptiles doesnt seem to know very much about reptiles in general....he was trying to sell me really big crickets with the attitude of "no no theyll be fine" without even knowing what i was feeding them to......he keeps trying to push this canned crickets product on me.....anyone heard about it?

Anyway...looking forward to your opinions on the above and will post some pics and proper svl measurements once I get back to them the wend ....its not an ideal setup being away i know...but thats what the job entails !

[DaremoAlpha]

For substrate I prefer to use astro turf or outdoor carpet, it is much easier to clean and maintain.

Food sources I used when Awol was small were 3-4 week old crickets and small mealworms which I dusted with calcium. Once he got bigger I introduced very small feeder fish to him as well but had to just let them flop around out of the water for him to take notice. Now that he is as big as he is, Awol gets Giant and Super mealworms, pinkies and fuzzies, crickets, goldfish and small amounts of yogurt. I keep trying to get him to eat fruit and veggies but no luck there, he just won't eat them


Keep introducing them together and they might get along.

When your big guy rushed, did he puff out and try to make himself look as big as possible?

Awol will puff out, lift a leg and open his mouth at me when he is in a threatening mood which is almost always hehehe

[dragosmom]

Hi! Lovely to have 3 new members! Sounds like you have grasped most of the pertinent issues on dragon raising! Get rid of the sand. Can you get orchid bark? Most of the European members use that. I personally recommend ground coconut husk marketed as eco-earth or bed-a-beast. I have 3 CWD living together Avanyu, Drago and Tripod) I just pretty much broke all of the rules, since they were all the same size, and threw them all together in the viv. You might want to do as you are doing and introduce the two ouside of the viv for interaction time. I've read that even housing 1 male with 1 female can be stressful during mating season because the male won't leave her alone. That's why I have 2 females, 1 male. This won't happen until they reach approx. 18-24 mos. I'm U.S. so the lengths kind of confuse me (we are inches here and I don't have my conversion chart handy) but 12-14 inches is usually indicative of a 12-14 month old and they tend to grow approx. 3/4"-1 1/2" per month. (F-M) The females end up approx. 24-26" in length at maturity and the males 30-36". Mine have pretty much followed this growth rate and our now 20-26". Welcome to our forum., James. Please posts some pics of Dismus and "unnamed" for us all to see! Can o crickets are a good food source if your dragons will eat them. Give 'em a try!

[elizabeth]

Centimeters to inches


(cm x 0.39)=inches

[DaremoAlpha]

Just for you Dragosmoms hehee

www.sciencemadesimple.com/conversions.html

I keep this web site in my favorites all the time because dealing with Americans about our cold weather and temps can be confusing for both sides.

[dragosmom]

Thanks to all for the conversion factors!

James, this chart might help you determine Dismus's age by length.

www.icomm.ca/dragon/age.htm

[MoMmYoF2DrAgOnS]

Just wanted to say Hello and welcome to the forums! I am sure you will find lots of info and wonderful ppl to help you learn all kinds of stuff for ur babies!!

Take Care!!

[Pooka]

Yes welcome to james, dismus and 'un-named' I hope you find all the info and support you need here.

[jamesobrady]

Thanks for all the replies and welcomes !
Outdoor carpet sounds like a good idea for substrate....not sure how readily available astroturf is around here...will check it out!

I may try the can o crickets stuff this week....it would definately save a lot of hassle with trying to keep a supply of live crickets all the time....the shops in Dublin dont always have crickets and even at that its a pain in the neck getting into the city just to get crickets.
Although I do prefer the idea of knowing exactly whats going into the dragons....the guys attitude in the shop just put me off the canned stuff on principle!

As i said ill be able to take better measurements and get some pics at the wend....and hopefully by then my Bro will ahve come up with a better name then "Cameron" or "Dopey" (his two suggestions so far) for the new guy!

Later,
J

[jamesobrady]

Hey all,
had a small scare the other day....was looking into Dizzy's viv the other day thinking to myself about how good he's getting at this hiding thing when i suddenly realised it was too good.... yup he was gone.

The only other time he ran off he ended up in the bathroom across the hall so looked there first....i knew the last time he had been seen was about 3 hours previous so figured he was long gone out of the room.
Anyway...an hour of frantically searching the house and i decided to look closer into the viv room(which is also my bedroom!) ...nope...an hour later of looking everywere and moving things about and nada....then just as i gave up i spotted a small bit of his tail inside my canvas wardrobe behind a shelf.....PHEWWWWW.

THe little dudewas clinging onto the canvas side verticaly and freezing cold...was kinda funny...he almost looked glad i found him and put him back in his warm moist viv !

Anyway the other day i decided to introduce the 2 wds for an extended period....i needed to clean out the 2 vivs so i put dizzy in with the othe guy and watched them for a short while. I threw some crickets and mealworms in and they both ate so i figured they probably werent too stressed. Cleaned dizzys viv....moved them both into dizzys viv...cleaned other guys viv...moved them both back into the larger viv and left them overnight together checking them regularly.
Dizzy seems more bothered about the whole experience then the bigger lizard....he's very skittery and any time the bigger guy moves in any way towards him dizzy zips off away to the other side of the enclosure. They slept beside each other for the night but in the morning i found dizzy between the water dish and the side of the enclosure and he was a dark brown colour......didnt look too good....put him back into his own world and he's fine again.

Size wise i suppose the older lizard is twice the size of dizzy...but is much more developed as regards spikes and detail.

Whats the opinions on this.....leave them separate another few months till Dizzy is older or just give them more them 12 hours together to chill out?

[DaremoAlpha]

Let dizzy get bigger.... just to small still and imtimidated by the larger dragon, keep intorducing them for short periods but then separate them again so there is a "safe feeling" for little Dizzy as well.

Sounds like they are off to a good start at least just needs time.

[dragosmom]

I agree with Daremo. Just let them spend some supervised time together (as you did) and then let the little guy have his own space for the night. Your method of introducing the two over a meal was superb!

BTW, IF he gets lost again BE SURE to shake out your shoes before you put them on. One of the dragons got squished and killed by the owner putting on his shoes when the dragon was lost. Tragic!

[jamesobrady]

Yeah sounds like good advice....cheers for that...lol would have taken some pics but left my digi camera at work for the wend!