Fatty Liver Disease

[clouddancer22]

What do you know about this??? Hugs, Ursula and Charlie

[Pooka]

I don't know much about it but I'd like to. Basically if I recall right, its from eating rich foods like pinkys in abundance. The fatty tissue builds up in and around the liiver reducing it effectivness and eventually leads to kidney failure. NOw, keep in mind I am just going off of memory, and may be totally wrong. I am hoping DM will come along with a better explanation, as I am also very curious.

[dragosmom]

Sorry, I had never heard of it until Ursula posted about it on kingsnake. I think Rick Gordon is probably the most knowledgable guy on that forum and I thoroughly respect his wisdom and advice. It also appears to fit Charlies's symptoms so maybe this is the solution to his problem. Ursula, where/how did you pick up on this particular disease? DM

[Pooka]

No worries I asked around and here is what I got from Char:

Hi Kiley,
Here's a couple of links that I had found before. They talk about cats and
dogs but it's the same basically for reptiles. Fatty liver disease is mostly
a secondary problem. More than likely it was caused by an underlying health
issue. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will help you out but here's
some "light" reading for now.

www.lbah.com/liver.htm#intro

www.anapsid.org/mainhealth.html#dige

www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0102-093520040001000
20&lng=es&nrm=iso&tlng=en

www.ivis.org/proceedings/ACVP/2004/Campbell2/IVIS.pdf

www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/smr/doi/10.1055/s-2002-3673
3;jsessionid=F2DB3E6083FFA0F3BF4D089B79DF8F4C.jvm2

Hope this helps some.
Char

[Pooka]

Tricia was kind enough to share this with me on the waterdragon mailing list:

I replied to a list member a few months ago- off list- about
Fatty liver disease and it is very hard to find good information
about it in regard to reptiles. Even my Mader's Reptile Medicine
and Surgery didn't discuss this problem.

Fatty liver disease or hepatic lipidosis, is really is a symptom
of other disorders that might affect the dragon. It's a metabolic
disease. The liver is a very important organ - and when it starts to
fail other organs start to fail, including the heart.

80% of the liver is made up of Hepatocytes which are the chief
functional cells of the liver and perform an astonishing number of
metabolic, endocrine and secretory functions. Roughly 80% of the mass
of the liver is contributed by hepatocytes. Often, during necropsy,
when an animal is diagnosed as passing away from a secondary cause of
fatty liver disease the hepatocytes cells are found to have fatty
changes. Occasionally during necropsy, a pathologist might find
signs of Xanthomatosis, which is a condition in which fatty deposits
occur in various parts of the body. These fatty deposits are called
xanthomas or xanthomata and appear as yellowish firm nodules in the
skin. Xanthomas are in themselves a harmless growth of tissue.
However, they frequently indicate the presence of underlying diseases
such as diabetes and disorders of fats (lipid disorder or
hyperlipidemia). Under the microscope, a xanthoma consists of
lipid-laden foam cells. These cells, termed histiocytes, contain
lipid material in their cytoplasm (the nonnuclear zone of the cell).

Long periods of anorexia (not eating) can cause the liver to
metabolize fats poorly once the animal begins to eat again. when the
liver can't metabolize fats in the diet properly it becomes fatty and
begins to function poorly.

My gut feeling is that with our reptiles, extended periods of
anorexia is the leading cause of fatty liver disease. When our
animals become sick with parasite infections or when they become
gravid they tend to not eat. If they remain sick for long periods I
think the chances of them developing some liver problems when they
start to eat again is good- especially if they are being fed diet
items that are high in fat.

My suggestion is that when your dragon is recovering from an
illness that has caused it to stop eating for a period of time,
please start the dragon on a low fat, low protein diet. Many people
give their dragons waxworms when they aren't eating well or when they
are recovering from illness and we know those food items are just
packed with fat. Please start off with earthworms or low fat, low
protein slurries until the animal is starting to do better. then
gradually get it back to it's normal diet. If we are careful about
how we start them back on food we may lessen the chances of them
developing liver problems simply from beginning to eat again.

Hope this helps!

[clouddancer22]

Wow, what a bunch of GREAT info!!! Thanks so much! Looks like a mom's intuition caused me to be doing all the right things, in spite of that expensive reptile vet who did absolutely nothing but take my money!!

Here's the thing - I really think Charlie is a he, not a she, just delayed development. I don't know why, I just do. So the gravid thing didn't work for me. I truly think Charlie was digging because he was unhappy. You would be too, with a belly like that.

I never let him go for too long without any food at all. He was never very hefty to start with, so that is good. When he first started losing his appetite, he at least would eat something from time to time. Then when he wouldn't eat for nearly a week, I got some Jump-Start for him - a concentrated caloric supplement with vitamins. Turns out to be the right thing to do.

He now refuses pinkies, and oh boy, thank goodness he refuses the wax worms I got yesterday!! I was thinking of trying to fatten him up, and according to what I read, alot of people do that and it is the WRONG thing to do!!

I fed him via syringe chicken baby food with calcium and weekly vitamins for about a month. Turns out to be a good thing also.

Now that his appetite is back, but not totally, I have been giving him meal worms and crickets. Turns out to be a recommended thing. Yay for a mom's intuition!!!

DM - I have read of several cases of CWD's that did not survive exploratory surgery, and every time they mention something about the liver. Enlarged, fatty, abnormal, something. I have been so frantic for so long about what was wrong with Charlie. Now, let's just hope that I figured it out in time. When he is much much better, I will take him to a reptile vet for a blood panel. They say to keep the stress level down, so a long car ride and a needle is out for now. Meanwhile, I will continue to supplement him with the Jump-Start for electrolytes - or maybe go buy the electrolyte product to add to his water that I saw at the local pet store?? I will also throw out those wax worms I just bought and skip the frozen pinkies for awhile. Any other suggestions, anyone???

Thank you all so much for your kind patience thru my search for my dear Charlie's problem. You must think I am a neurotic mom! Lol, I probably am!

[wdm]

Just an FYI we are all neurotic parents to our dragons my girls and their cage mates have 12x4x4 ft enclosure that my computers are in front of so I can keep track of them when I'm home thats not teurotic is it??? Oh and ofcourse so I can entertain them and be here to jump at there every whim (as I said thats not neurotic er well maybe lol )

[clouddancer22]

Thanks Wdm, I need that!

[dragosmom]

Thanks to Dragonsden, for the info. Pooka, how do you get on the water dragon mailing list? Ursula, always go with your intuition-it has served you (and Charlie) well. Glad to hear he's eating some insects.
DM

[Pooka]

DM (and anyone else who is interested) the instructions to subscribe to the list are here:
triciaswaterdragon.com/wdmailng.htm

Also the list has a frappr map setup here:
www.frappr.com/waterdragonowners

Both great resources to get info and to get in touch with other owners near you.