bearded dragon food

[ClementeDragons]

matt said:

Hi, in my opinion fish would be to much protein, most of what I read and researched on BD tell you do not feed meat or chicken because that amount of protein can cause kidney damage.

I agree it is bad to give your dragons pinkies so there is a good chance it would be the same but I will still look in to it and find out more info before I can be forsure.

[fishing4dragons]

You cant always believe things you read on the internet, just like you dont have to believe me. But i have fed both my CWD and beardie fish for as long as i have had them, i have had my CWD for 3 yrs and my beardie for almost a yr and they are perfectly fine. My petstore wouldnt let me buy the feeders if they were that bad for them. I am very close with my petstore and they know every animal i have and i just come in and they give me what i need without asking. So if they are THAT horrible bad then they wouldnt give me feeders to feed them. I even take my dragons to the same petstore for health problems. They give me free medicine and handle my dragons great. I have been going to the same place for years! and i trust them with all my animals lifes and trust what they tell me and give me to feed my animals that it wont hurt them.

[ClementeDragons]

All bearded dragons are different; some dragons can tolerate different things better than others. I have friends that have bearded dragons and feed them pinkies. Their dragons are fine and have been on it for a few years, but some of the dragons get impact and/or pass away.

What I am saying is there is a risk involved and your dragons are going the right way

[matt]

The best way to know on the fish is to find a really good reptile vet and ask them. Then you would know for sure.

[spike]

what is everyone's opinon on the best diet for a beardie

my new diet that i have started is this:
squash
broccoli
carrots
pumkin
bok choy
sweet potatoe
dog food
bearded dragon pellets

i have found that my male likes to eat bright coloured foods.... so squash and carrot seem to be his favourite whereas the female will eat anything..

and crickets and the occassional mealworms and silkworms

[ClementeDragons]

I use dark leafy greens like collard greens and kale. I also feed them crickets in the morning and in the after noon (2 hours before the lights get turned off). I give my adults a few giant meal worms every now and then.

[spike]

How often do you feed your adults
i feed mine vegetables every other day except
and i feed them crix on tuesday, thursday sunday
usually about 6-8 large ones each

[Cyrene]

while looking through Tricias' site I found an article on MBD, a quote from Dr. D. Mader was there.

"Insects also have a negative Ca: P ratio; therefore, insectivorous reptiles and amphibians are also prone to MBD. All insects should be fed a Ca-rich diet for 2 to 3 days prior to being used as food or should be dusted with Ca carbonate (CO3) just prior to being used as food. A more balanced diet for insectivores should include baby mice or whole fish."

Just thought I'd pass it along.

[ClementeDragons]

Cyrene said:

A more balanced diet for insectivores should include baby mice or whole fish."

If you are going to use pinkies (baby mice) I recommend that you only feed them to your adult dragons. The best time to use pinkies is when your female is gravid or when you are taking your dragons out of brumation. There are risks in feeding your dragon pinkies; such as impaction or cryptosporidium (there is no cure for cryptosporidium).

[spike]

yeah.... i have heard that a beardie should only be feed a pinkie when it is extra need of certain proteind and fats... and that is usually when a beardie is pregnant

[Cyrene]

I've never given either of my dragons pinkies or fish, pinkies just seem kinda...i dunno, gross. I agree about the nutritonal value and fat as well and they should only be fed in certain instances. And my dragons are way too small for pinkies anyways. I am wondering about the fish though. From what Mader said in that article, the fish are good for them because of the calcium in the bones of the fish, which insects don't have. Fish bones are softer and a lot smaller than pinkies, I can get feeder guppies half the size of the crickets I feed. On the other hand, I know from eating fish myself that some fish bones can be rather sharp. I'm not for or against the feeding of fish, I am however very curious about the benefits and the drawbacks of doing so.

[spike]

i dont much about feeding the dragons fish but as i said before, you should only feed pinkies to gravid females before and after the laying... it just helps them develop and cope by getting all the extra fat and protein and stuff.... thats what it basically says on 95% on other care sheets/ forums

[Cyrene]

I've been looking into the protein levels and the Calcium/Phosphorus levels of different foods, comparing them to that of commonly used BD food and occasional treats for them. The closest thing I can find to feeder fish is canned pink salmon and canned sardines, so far. So, here goes just a few comparisons real quickly.

Crickets (before gut-load) Ca/P 1:12 , Protein 21.3%
Kaplans site states the crickets are 55.3 % Protein, however.
Silkworms Ca/P 1:2.4, Protein 63.8%
Waxworms Ca/P 1:7, Protein 15.5%
Ground Beef Ca/P 1:15.5, Protein 26.1%
Cooked Pork Chop Ca/P 1:7.8, Protein 30.2%
Pink Salmon (canned) Ca/P 1:1.5, Protein 19.8%
Sardines (canned) Ca/P 1:1.3, Protein 24.6%
ZooMed's Juvie pellets are 28% Protein minimum, according to the lable and also list Fish Oil and Fish Meal in the ingredients.

So, if Phosphorus binds Calcium I can see that Beef and pork chops have a bad ratio, but then crickets aren't that great either, in comparison. The protein levels of the salmon is lower than that of crickets as well. Looking at the protein levels of the silkworms, which is supposedly very good for Dragons, silkworms have over twice as much protein as the sardines and salmon. If anyone can find the Calcium/Phosphorus ratio's and the protein percentages of other raw fish and fresh fish or the protein levels of pinkies I would be very interested in your findings.
I'm still not for or against feeding fish, just sharing what info I have found so far to those that are interested. I personally would never give my BD's sardines from a can either, just for the record. I'm still looking into what protein levels are good for BD's as well. I do know that high phosphorus levels in the blood (from diet and vitamins) will cause liver/renal damage and calcium deficiency though.
So, any thoughts, comments, data or more info anyone?
Sorry this got so long...I tend to ramble at times ;D

[Cyrene]

Almost forgot about the Cryptosporidium...from everything I've read on it, along with reports of coccidia and gheardia (sp?) there are very few living mammals, humans included, that don't carry at least a few oocysts some point in their lifespan. Whether the host is assystematic or shows signs depends greatly on the health, age and immune system. Plus, there have been very few studies done on whether reptiles can be infected by the strains that rats have been reported to carry. Yes, there is some concern envolved, I agree. Anybody feeding pinkies should be aware of this parasite. Proper care of your breeding mice (or a trusted supplier) will go a long in reducing the chances of your dragons getting this. And if your feeding frozen pinkies, freezing pinkies at -20C for 24 hours has been shown to render all oocysts non-infectious in Labratory testings.
And impaction? hey, even a new owner like me knows better than to feed pinkies to hatchlings and juvies

If anyone has any more info, or info that is contradictory to what I've read/been told and stated here I'd appreciate the heads up on it. I don't know that every scientific study or parasitologist will agree 100% with all the other studies but I'm always looking for new info. Thanks

[Cyrene]

This just came in from the Parasitolgy Research Lab of Steve J. Upton, PhD. Kansas State University. I wrote to him asking about the possibility of reptiles contracting the parasite from fish since I haven't been able to find any information regarding this specifically. I just thought I would pass it along.

" Fish Cryptosporidium do not infect reptiles. The reptiles have their own specific species that they contract orally from contaminated food or water. "